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Showing posts with label reason. Show all posts
Showing posts with label reason. Show all posts

Monday, March 21, 2016

Overwhelmed... 20K+ Likes on FB - Thank You and Welcome!

Over the weekend, Discovering Reason reached 20K likes on Facebook—so I want to welcome those who are new to the page and say thank you to everyone who has participated thus far. I’ve said this before, but I’m so proud of the quality of people Discovering Reason has attracted!

So how did this page start? Well first off, I was raised Christian, went to Church 3 times a week, went to a private Christian High School and even 2 years at a Christian college.
As soon as I realized I didn’t have good reasons for believing in a god—I became very curious about the world, the universe, religion etc. and sought a better understanding of reality. You can read a short blog post about how I became an atheist here.

For the next year, I watched many lectures on varied topics along with countless debates about religion/god. After about a year of learning about evolution, astronomy, critical thinking skills, humanism, etc. I wanted to create a place where I could discuss religion/atheism and other issues. So I started the blog on September 10th, 2011—I called it Discovering Reason because that is what I felt I had done. Many would say I lost my religion but what I really did was discover reason—and I wanted to do my part to help others do the same. 

As soon as I started the blog, I decided to start a FB page to promote it—I realized the FB page was just as effective as I hoped the blog would be, maybe even more. It’s been a great way to stimulate important discussions. 

Soon after, I started a t-shirt company called Smart Apparel with basically the same mission as DR, but accomplishing it by creating designs that celebrate science and reason. www.smartappareltees.com

I certainly have a lot to learn and always will, and by no means claim to be an expert on anything. I’m happy to admit when I don’t know something, but I’m confident that I’ve discovered the tools that will allow me to come to the most reasonable and/or accurate conclusion possible given the available evidence. I know there will be many who disagree with some of the things I post, and I welcome those who are sincere to challenge these post.

I’d love for the page to be a place where people can come to discuss any issue without the fear of being personally attacked. I know it's unrealistic to hope for a page where everyone is open-minded and willing to change their view or position based on the evidence, but that is my dream for this page!

I look forward to continuing our journey together and helping the world become more reasonable!

Thursday, February 4, 2016

Beyond Reason

A couple weeks ago I posted on the Discovering Reason FB page something David Smalley (host of Dogma Debate) wrote on his FB page. I saw someone had left a comment saying,

“What utter garbage. Bet the writer can find no empirical 'proof' for his claims. Hypocrite!”


Since David wasn’t around to defend himself, I responded in his defense, this sparked a somewhat heated but civil discussion, which you can find here.

Toward the end of our back and forth he had taken a look at the DR blog and asked if I’d be willing to let him write something to challenge the readers to ask “positive questions about God” and hopefully start a different type of discussion.

I thought this was a great idea. Although I know some might think, “Why agree to that? We’re already bombarded with Christian content everywhere we look.” This is true, but I think anything that gets people to examine the views of others and discuss them in a civil way is a good thing. It seems many Christians have the view that non-believers don’t believe because they don’t understand. So I’d like to encourage people to read the post below with an open-mind, and after reading it share your thoughts in the comments.
Note: I’ve looked for a Christian blog in the past that would be willing to post something I’ve written on their blog and in exchange I’d post something of theirs in an attempt to encourage people to challenge their views. I haven’t had any luck in this venture, so if someone reading this has a Christian blog or know of a Christian blog that would like to participate in said idea, please contact me!

Tuesday, January 6, 2015

If You’re Humble and You Know It. . . Religion and Arrogance

Recently I was listening to an episode of The Thinking Atheist titled What You Don't Know About Religion (but should) with Dr. Ryan Cragun and in the episode Ryan discussed how the religious are always claiming that the non-religious are too proud (which keep them from being religious). In his book, What You Don't Know About Religion (but should), he completely debunks this claim in chapter 15, and with his permission, here is that chapter. 

IF YOU'RE HUMBLE AND YOU KNOW IT... RELIGION and ARROGANCE

Do you remember where you were and what you were doing on April 7, 2004, from 11:42 to 11:53 a.m.? Most readers probably don’t. I do. I remember it very clearly. I was chatting with my younger brother, Josh, via an instant messaging client. (It helps that I keep my chat logs.)

I left the Mormon religion in the summer of 2002. The fallout of that decision continued for several years as I had to negotiate a new relationship with my still- Mormon family. Part of that negotiation was dealing with my family’s version of why I left the religion. The motives they attributed to me and my decision were and, frankly, still are, hurtful. In retrospect, I should have expected something like this (for reasons I’ll explain later), especially since I was being trained as a sociologist at the time. But actually going through it is far different from simply studying it.

Josh was serving as a missionary for the Mormon Church when I left the religion. I’m sure it was hard for him and my other younger siblings as we were all close and, I believe (in part because they have told me so), they had looked up to me as a faithful member of the religion. My brother had the courage to discuss my decision to leave the religion on several occasions despite warnings from church leaders not to associate with “apostates.” We had discussed my leaving several times before the conversation reported below, but this conversation was the culmination of those discussions.

Here is basically how it went (edited for spelling, grammar, and flow, but still in chat format):

Josh: So you tell me, once and for all, completely honestly, was there sin involved or not? . . . And I’ll believe you (not that I didn’t before. . .).
Ryan: I left because I do not believe what Mormonism teaches, not because of

102

IF YOU'RE HUMBLE AND YOU KNOW IT. . . • 103

sin. Of course, it helps that I no longer believe in sin, but based on your definition of sin, I left not because of sin.
Josh: But what I’m getting at is: did you come to that conclusion because of sin?
Ryan: If doubting the existence of god is a sin, then I obviously sinned. If not reading your scriptures every day is a sin, then I obviously sinned. If believing prayer is ineffectual, then I sinned. If being critical of the church and its leaders is a sin, then I sinned. But in the sense you mean, no I was not a sinner.
Josh: Well that answers that. The rumors are circulating, and, much as you said, they tend to lean toward saying you sinned and were too proud to repent.
Ryan: Um, who said this? Because that is a bunch of shit.
Josh: Someone came to the conclusion that you slept with someone while you were out here away from Debi [my wife] and that’s when you went AWOL, which I thought was laughable, but I didn’t really know the truth. So, I didn’t refute anything.
Ryan: Sick, wrong, delusional, and typical Mormon bullshit.
Josh: LOL. Yeah, I thought you would like that.
Ryan: Um, who came up with this? I have never had sex with anyone other than Debi—end of story!
Josh: I don’t know. Shortly after I came home [from his LDS mission in Spain], that was the rumor circulating among the family—not necessarily that you slept with someone, but that a mixture of sin and pride led you away.

Let me summarize just to be clear. After I informed my family that I was no longer going to be attending or participating in the Mormon religion, someone in my family suggested that the reason why I had decided to leave was because I had an affair and was too proud to repent. And, yes, it was an immediate family member who suggested this, either a sibling, one of my siblings’ spouses, or one of my parents (I still don’t know who).

The accusation of adultery is, in fact, a brilliant accusation. If they had accused me of, say, piercing my scrotum or getting a tattoo on my ass, I could have easily dispelled that rumor. But accusing me of adultery is smart because, while I can deny it, there is no way I can prove that I did not commit adultery.

But the point I want to emphasize here is not that my family accused me of committing adultery, which is a really terrible thing to do. The point is they accused me of being too proud to repent of my sin. While I no longer think my family believes I committed adultery, I’m fairly certain they remain convinced that my

104 • WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT RELIGION (but should)

pride is keeping me out of the religion. I recently had a Mormon friend confirm to me that he thinks that is the major impediment keeping me from returning to the religion—I am too learned and arrogant in my “worldly” knowledge (i.e., science and scholarship), preventing me from seeing the truthfulness of religion. Accusations of pride are a common weapon in the arsenal of the religious. This chapter will remove that weapon from their arsenal (and give it to the nonreligious).

—§—

Pride is a tricky concept to tackle. Pride, in one sense, is actually an important element of positive mental health. Everyone should be proud of who they are in the sense that they have a reasonable sense of self-respect. Not being proud of who you are and lacking self-respect is actually an indication of poor self-esteem and poor mental health. Used in this sense, pride isn’t bad at all and really is something to be sought after.

However, the religious typically don’t think about pride this way. When they level their accusations of pride at those who disagree with them (because you can’t disagree with them on logical or reasonable grounds), what they really mean is more along the lines of either conceit, which is an excessive appreciation of one’s own worth, or arrogance, which is an attitude of superiority that is often manifested by making presumptuous claims or assumptions. Alleging pride in nonbelievers is quite common among the religious and appears in scripture regularly, like the following verses:

Proverbs 16:5—The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

Proverbs 16:18—Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.

While the religious mean arrogance and conceit when they accuse people of being proud, what they are really doing is accusing people of dissenting. Religious people don’t actually hate that some people are arrogant or conceited (else they would hate themselves). What they hate is when someone challenges them or dis- agrees with them. To curtail dissent, they call it “pride” or “arrogance” and they use this to demean those who question. In a remarkable manipulation of language, the religious have completely inverted the meaning of pride. When the religious say you should be humble, they actually mean “claim to know stuff you don’t.” And when the religious say it is bad to be proud, they are actually criticizing those who question and doubt.

IF YOU'RE HUMBLE AND YOU KNOW IT. . . • 105

To question something isn’t arrogant; it’s exactly the opposite. Those who question are unsure of what they know or believe. What they are exhibiting is humility, not conceit. Yet it is those who question who are accused of being proud. Confusing, isn’t it?

Among the most common recipients of accusations of arrogance by the religious are people with advanced education who question or don’t believe. Believers assert that those with “worldly” education believe they know more than the leaders of religions (which, not surprisingly, is often true).

I have had several friends and family members accuse me of being arrogant because of my education. There is a great deal of irony in this. When I was a Mormon, I was an arrogant asshole. I condemned people to hell, regularly. I refused to associate with people who I believed were sinners. In fact, one of my closest friends in high school did not disclose to me that he was having sex with his girlfriend because he thought I would stop hanging out with him. It pains me to admit it now, but he was probably right—I would have pitied him for having no self-control and for sinning, and would have cut him off so I would not be tainted by his sinfulness. And, more relevant to the point at hand, I thought I knew everything there was to know about Mormonism and I was certain that what I believed and did was right without question. As I noted in the story that began this chapter, I left Mormon- ism because I learned more about it, not because I was too proud to repent (for a sin I didn’t commit, no less). When I was religious, I was proud and arrogant, yet called myself humble. Now that I’ve left religion, I’m accused of being proud by the religious, yet I’m much more humble. I now admit that there is a hell of a lot I don’t know about most things. My wife has even pointed out that the nickname she gave me when we met, “Arro” (short for “arrogant”), no longer fits.

Before I left Mormonism, I had a lot of people come to me when they had doubts or questions. I frequently answered them, thinking I had all the answers. Yet, now that I actually have more knowledge and information about Mormonism, most Mormons refuse to talk to me. They don’t consider me trustworthy anymore. Religious believers will turn to someone with virtually no formal education for answers so long as the answers validate their existing beliefs, but will shun someone with formal education who has evidence that doesn’t validate their beliefs. Which of these two informants is proud: the uneducated person claiming to know things he doesn’t, or the educated person who provides the limited information available to him bounded by the limits of probability?

What the above suggests is that, based on objective definitions of arrogance, pride, and conceit, it is highly likely that nonreligious individuals will be less arrogant than religious individuals. Arrogance includes making presumptuous claims. Claiming to know things when you don’t know them is arrogant. While many lib-

106 • WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT RELIGION (but should)

eral religious people phrase their beliefs in tentative terms, more fundamentalist people do not. They insist that the things they believe are real. In fact, they typically will not say things like, “I believe in a god” or “I hope there is a heaven.” What they will say is, “I know there is a god” and “Heaven is real.” They assert that these beliefs are facts with no evidence. Is that humble?

Contrast religious assertions with scientific assertions. Science is, at heart, a tentative endeavor. Scientists may assert that they “know” certain things, but they only do so once the evidence for those things is overwhelming! For example, a scientist could assert that earthquakes are due to shifting tectonic plates and say, “Earthquakes result when the plates that make up the earth’s crust move.” The evidence behind this claim is compelling enough at this point that no scientists question it. It is a defensible assertion given the mountains of evidence that exist to support this claim (pun intended). What you will rarely, if ever, hear a scientist say is that she knows something is true when she has no evidence to support the assertion.

This is basically how social scientists frame everything we write. We know there is discrimination against racial minorities in the United States. But we don’t know how extensive it is or to what extent the discrimination accounts for the higher rates of poverty among many racial minorities. We can assert that discrimination against racial minorities contributes to higher rates of poverty among those groups, but you will not find a reputable social scientist who would say, “I am 100% certain that racial discrimination accounts for 53.748534% of the difference in poverty rates between blacks and whites.” We just aren’t that certain. We make estimates, but those estimates are always couched in various levels of uncertainty. We don’t speak in definitives. We speak in probabilities, despite having evidence to support our assertions.

Contrast these two positions. The religious person, without any evidence, asserts that certain things are true. This is done purely on faith. Scientists, who have evidence to back up their claims, typically couch their claims as tentative and probabilistic (i.e., more or less likely). If arrogance is making presumptuous claims or assertions, which of the two groups is more arrogant: those who definitively claim to know things without evidence or those who suggest they may know something based on evidence? I’ll help you: it’s the religious who are arrogant, not scientists.

I don’t mean to suggest that all nonreligious people are scientists or think scientifically (though many do and a large percentage of scientists are nonreligious). But nonreligious people are much less likely to assert that they know things than are religious people. The empirical evidence bears this out. Figure 15.1 displays the results of several questions from the World Values Survey that illustrate various aspects of arrogance.

IF YOU'RE HUMBLE AND YOU KNOW IT. . . • 107

Figure 15.1. Characteristics of Pride by importance of religion 
Source: WVs

 The questions depicted in figure 15.1 ask whether the respondent considers him or herself to have specific characteristics. The first question asked respondents if the following statement described them, “I enjoy convincing others of my opinion.” The most religious individuals around the world are the most likely to agree with that statement. They are also the most likely to agree with all the others shown in the figure, including, “I serve as a model for others,” “I own many things others envy me for,” “I like to assume responsibility,” and, the coup de grĂ¢ce when it comes to arrogance, “I often give others advice.” The most religious score almost 20 percent higher than the next most religious and 30 percent higher than the nonreligious. In other words, if anyone has an inflated sense of self-importance, indicative of conceit, it is the highly religious. The nonreligious are, on most measures, the least conceited. Other researchers have arrived at the same conclusion using other data—highly religious people are the least humble and the most arrogant as they claim to know things when they don’t, while the least religious do just the opposite. 

There may be some readers who are surprised by this finding. I don’t find it surprising at all. Many people turn to religion precisely because it gives them a sense of importance and significance. Think about it this way: the modern world is a big, scary place. It is virtually impossible today to not be aware of your insignificance. Very few people have the influence and fame to be considered actors on the world stage. Most of us are bit players in local productions with no chance of ever making a name for ourselves outside of our family, let alone our neighborhood or our city.
Modernization breeds a sense of insignificance.

Religion, particularly exclusive, strident, fundamentalist, monotheistic religion, offers an antidote to insignificance: a personal relationship with a supreme, supernatural being. The world may pass you by; your family may even reject you.

108 • WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT RELIGION (but should)

But your god knows you, cares about you, and will alleviate all of your problems in the afterlife. What’s more, this “personal” god will actually listen to you when no one else will. He (sometimes she) is always listening—literally, always. How better to make someone feel significant than to give them an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, always approachable, and always supportive buddy?

Additionally, for monotheists, the god they worship epitomizes arrogance. He is (allegedly) self-described as jealous, supreme, superior, all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfect. If you met someone who described himself/herself as having just one of these characteristics, let alone all of them, wouldn’t you consider that person to be arrogant? Worshipers of an arrogant god who hypocritically demands humility happen to be arrogant. Is anyone surprised by this?

Of course, it’s not just the god of monotheists who is arrogant or proud. Any religious leader who claims to be able to interpret god’s will better than any other person can only be considered to be arrogant as he/she is claiming to have superior knowledge to others—ironically by claiming superior knowledge about the unknowable.

Gods are proud. Religious leaders are proud. And highly religious people are proud. This is not pride in the “pride-is-good-for-your-self-esteem” sense but in the “we’re-better-than-you-and-claim-to-know-shit-we-don’t” sense. It seems, then, that the cornerstone of religion is not humility, but pride.

—§—

Religions’ use of pride is a brilliant bit of marketing and doublespeak. Religions and religious people decry pride as being a terrible thing. They assert that pride will lead people out of religion or keep people from becoming religious. And yet, the more religious you are, the prouder, more arrogant, and more conceited you are. Religious people consider themselves to be more righteous than nonreligious people; religious people consider themselves to be better than nonreligious people; and religious people claim to know more than nonreligious people. Religious people exhibit all the characteristics of pride, but they call it humility. They’re humble and they know it.


The references to the scientific research for this chapter are at the back of the book and not included here. Go here to purchase a copy. 

Sunday, March 23, 2014

Why Do Atheists Ignore the Good Religion Does


Christians often ask atheists, "Why do you ignore the good Christianity does?"

This is an odd question since I never see Christians promoting the good done by other religions. Why would Christians think atheists should promote anything good they do?

I'm not one who denies that Christianity ever does anything good. I'm sure many religions do good, and it's a shame that with all the money and power they have they don't do more.

Instead, they seem to use their money and influence to take rights away from those they disagree with. It's one thing for them to have their opinion, but it's another to go a step further and influence politicians into creating laws that restrict people's freedom. 

Atheists who promote reason aren't focused on highlighting the good an organization does whether religious or secular (although it's great when they do and we often encourage it) - it's to get people to think critically about their beliefs.

Beliefs matter, beliefs are what cause religious terrorists to blow themselves up killing others around them. Beliefs are what cause some to think climate change isn't an issue to worry about because their god is ultimately in control.

As Sam Harris has said, "I know of no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too desirous of evidence in support of their core beliefs."

Yes, irrational beliefs can still motivate people to do good, but the good that comes from religion doesn't make up for the bad - and even if it did, it wouldn't make that religion true. Anything good that comes from religion can also be done without it. If we understand the reality of an issue we have a better chance of improving it, unlike relying on wishful thinking or superstition.

Sunday, May 5, 2013

Top 10 Popular Memes


This is a list of the top 10 memes posted on the DR Facebook page that have to do with religion.
The link to the post is above so you can easily see what others had to say about it or so you can share your thoughts with others who have commented. Because unlike religious pages, I encourage people who don't agree to comment and won't block those who do (unless they are immature or obnoxious). 

It is no secret that people who deny evolution can rarely explain it. It could be that people deny evolution because creationism is so easy to learn, or they are afraid to learn it because it may jeopardize their faith. But it is intellectually dishonest to deny something before understanding the claims that are being made. Creationists have to agree with the statement that a 3 year old who can say “God did it” knows more about the origin of life than a biologist studying evolution. This of course is absurd but if you are a creationist you have to admit you believe it. And they wonder why they get labeled as anti-intellectuals.

Christians claim that their God can do anything, so apparently that claim comes with an asterisk which says, “God can do anything *except create a book that is consistent and moral so that everyone will agree on what it says and there won’t be 1000’s of different interpretations.” 

Many religious people think that their faith is correct and that all others are wrong when in reality they all lack good reasons for believing. This can only be explained by brainwashing and not being educated about other faiths and scientific discoveries. If people only know one side, then there is only one conclusion they can come to.
If a god demands people to have faith in his existence, than gullibility would be his main requirement for heaven. Because there are thousands of religions that require faith, so if one faith were correct, how could we possible pick the correct one? We can’t possibly make an informed decision without evidence to guide us. This means our fate would likely be left up to hoping that our parents taught us the right faith and that their parents taught them the right faith and so on. And where our parents lived plays a big role in which faith they were taught. A moral god would not base whether we are sent to heaven or hell on where our parents’ lived and what faith they taught us.


This one was created to show how ridiculous religion is when it’s not something we are taught as a child. If we have been indoctrinated to believe something when we were young, it can be hard to see how absurd it is when we grow older, but all we have to do is look at the claims of other religions to understand how absurd it is.

And if I may go on a little rant, these claims in the meme originate from people who thought heaven was just above the clouds, and with our technology today, we can see billions of light years away and heaven has never been spotted. So to still believe claims such as flying to heaven with or without a horse is completely loony. Even if traveling at the speed of light for the last 2000 years, that still wouldn't be fast enough to get out of our Milky Way galaxy, as it is 100,000 light years across!

Here are just a few of those verses that if followed you might find yourself in prison today. 

Exodus 22:19; Exodus 35:2; Deuteronomy  22:20-21; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Leviticus 20:13; Leviticus 20:27; Leviticus 20:9; Leviticus 20:10; Leviticus 24:10-16; Exodus 32:26-29; Romans 1:24-32 

7. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470933999627241&set=a.279728938747749.92041.218404284880215&type=3&theater
Christians seem to think that because the Bible says that their God was the first to exists makes it a fact, but any study of ancient religions will show that there were many gods that came before their own.

Also, there is a mistake in this meme, Odysseus and Romulus were not considered gods which was pointed out in the thread. But the rest were and there were many more that could have been used. But even if there was only one god that predates the god in the Bible, the point still stands.

8. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=478983652155609&set=a.279728938747749.92041.218404284880215&type=3&theater
It seems like this phrase is often used to convince people that they are trustworthy. But what is so trustworthy about believing in things without evidence?











I often think about what kind of reaction religious people would have if humans discovered a planet with intelligent life and they had 100's of different stories/religions that explained their origins and even fought each other over who was right. It obviously seems ridiculous and extremely sad that a species would kill each other over such ideas. We would think, why don't they just test each stories claims to figure out who is right? As rational as that sounds, many humans aren't willing to do that with their own claims about our own origin. So who are we to laugh at them for being so irrational when we are no different.
This one obviously ruffled some Christian feathers. If they are going to be against gay marriage because they think marriage should be only between a man and a woman or because their holy book says it's wrong, fine. We can disagree, and history will show that they are on the wrong side just as those who were once against interracial marriage. But if they are going to be against two people of the same sex who love each other getting married and even go as far as protesting it, then they better be protesting when clergy members are molesting children and demand that they are prosecuted for their crimes! But unfortunately many say nothing because they are afraid it will damage the image of the institution that they follow, and they still try and claim moral superiority at the same time. 

Hopefully some of these ideas will help you when debating religion. However, if you are religious and disagree with any of these, please leave a comment and share your thoughts on why you disagree and why you think your religion/god is real.