2 Christians an atheist and a Facebook Page

This is a conversation that I found pretty remarkable on the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) Facebook page. I wasn't surprised by the comments of the Christians as I have had my share of these discussions, but for a rational Christian I think this might be eye-opening.

To conceal the identity of those in the discussion, I will refer to the Christians as Pastor (since he is a Pastor) and Why?Outreach (since that is the name of the FB page) and to the atheist as just atheist. There is one other person who makes a small contribution later in the discussion that I will refer to as “other” (because I was a big fan of LOST) which has nothing to do with this at all!

(Warning: There are a few spelling errors that were not corrected due to irony)

The conversation starts with this post by the Pastor.

The atheist's argument against God is that "IF" there is a God, He is not a good God due to all the murdering of innocent people. Innocent? Really? IF, one reads the accounts of cities of peoples who God "murdered", one can easily see that these people were anything but innocent. Remember what your father told you as a child when you blatantly disrespected and disobeyed, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out". So it is for God. He created us, only He, can take us out. And just as your father, it will not be unjustifiably.

WHY?Outreach) If the premise of an argument is flawed (ie humans are innocent) then of course the conclusion will be erroneous.

Atheist) But I thought you believe God gives us free will? By him killing them he is sending them to "hell" and he is taking away their chance of repenting and becoming "saved". You would think a moral god would try and give them as much time as possible to avoid the hell he created for the children he loves so much.

WHY?Outreach)  An omniscient God would also know ahead of time whether or not they would repent or not- this is very simple when you think about it...and it is noted that you evaded directly addressing the points Pastor raised.

Atheist) So then I take it you don't pray? Because an omniscient God would already know what you would be praying for and he would already know what is going to happen so praying wouldn't make any sense, right?

What points did I evade addressing? I'll be more than happy to address them if you let me know what you’re talking about. Thanks.

Pastor) atheist, this is another case of you not knowing the Bible! What did God do when Moses asked Him not to send him to face Pharaoh? Oh and Why?Outreach, atheist has no choice but to evade my questions.

Atheist) Pastor, this is not a case of me not knowing the Bible. This is you all getting stuck when cornered on your beliefs. Instead of using this argument "I don't know the Bible", why don't you address my point about prayer? If Outreach is going to say God already knows what is going to happen and has a plan, than why is it necessary to pray?

And like I said, if you tell me what question I evaded I'll be happy to answer it.

Pastor) And yet another one asking a theological question with little to no biblcial education. You can't know how to build a model car if you don't first read the directions. STUDY! LEARN!

Pastor) What ever makes you fell good atheist. The fact is that you have repeatedly misuded scripture to prove a point and yet you have no idea how you did it.

Tell me atheist, what was the significance of the blood on the door posts in the passover story? You have 1 minute to reply or I will know that you googled it. IF you know, you will need no more time than that.

Pastor) Time is up atheist. And please don't give the old tired excuse, I was away from my computer crap. You saw what I posted. You just couldn't answer it.

Pastor) Notice how atheist claims to know the Bible but runs away to another thread when asked a simple bible question. LOL!

Atheist) Pastor, I'm sorry I didn't see your trivia question. I was responding to a comment you had made earlier on a different thread. I don't get alerts saying you have responded I have to go back to a thread to see if you have responded.

Quick Bible question, What must a man do if he is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged? You have one minute, or I will know you googled it :)

Pastor) Hahahahahahahahahahahaha You were NOT! hahahahah I was here and saw everywhere you commented. LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I told you that you would use some lame excuse. LOL!!!!!!!!!!

You are a very funny man atheist. You do everything you can to get out of answering a question then you expect me to answer yours. LOL!!!!!!

atheist, go read the Bible. And stop googling questions in hopes of finding one that I can't answer. HAahahahahah ! Pitiful!

Atheist) Pastor, I'm not lying, anyone can scroll down and see that a responded to a couple other threads, or you or someone else blocked my comment I don't know. I have read the Bible from front to back 2 times. This is not including all the bible studies I did when growing up.

BTW, the answer is he must pay her father 50 pieces of silver, and then marry her. Lucky her right! She has to live with the guy who raped her for the rest of her life and he is not allowed to divorce her. Got to love biblical morals!

Have a good day Pastor!

Pastor) Oh atheist, no one blocked anything and I knew the answer atheist. I am a pastor. I am quite "familiar" with the Bible. I will even venture to guess that I understand it better than you. Not because I am a pastor, but because of the way you have used the scriptures and how you have misunderstood the entire concept of context.

Also, your last comment >> Got to love biblical morals!<<

Only proves my point. You do not have the slightest inclination of what this verse is talking about or the ones before or after it.

Got to love ignorance.

Have a great day atheist!

Atheist) Well please, enlighten us with what the verse really means then. BTW, it is Deuteronomy 22:28-29 for anyone who wants to go read the whole chapter to make sure it is in context.

Pastor) Good grief atheist. You really are that slow! We're not talking about any particular verse. We're talking about using scripture in context. My GOSH ATHEIST. You are mind numbing!!!

Atheist) Well, since you said I don't know what the verse is talking about it must mean you do. So I'd love to know what you think it is talking about. But I understand if you want to dodge the question.

Pastor) atheist, you have completely exhausted my patience. I can only imagine what your teachers had to endure. I pity them.

Atheist) Actually, I didn't ask many questions in school, I believed my teachers knew what they were talking about and since I was indoctrinated at such an early age to believe in God and the Bible I never really questioned in much.

But I'm sorry my question has you stumped. Maybe it was not god who came up with the law saying a rapist must marry the girl he raped. The logical explanation is that it was ancient men claiming to speak for a god they made up and that is why it is so immoral.

Pastor) atheist, I'm sorry, but you're just a moron. I mean come on. I have debated with atheists who actually were quite intellegent and provided a challenging fight, but you, well, you're just, well. Ignorant. Sorry, but I just don't know what else to say. It's like the lights are on, but no one is home.

Other) Ad Hominem

Pastor) No other, don't cry for your boyfriend yet. If someone shows no intelligence what so ever, then the we must look to the dictionary. And moron is what we find.

Atheist) other, you are exactly right. When they have no response to an argument people usually just resort to name calling. It is ironic that Pastor wants to quiz me on the Bible but when he is asks a question he refuses to answer. If he had a good response he would be quick to make it rather than look foolish and just call me a moron.

WHY?Outreach) atheist, there is a huge distinction between applying a label which is accurate- if unflattering- and name calling/mockery as a substitute for addressing the evidence ..which is demonstrably the most common modus operandi of the 'atheist'.

Pastor) They're either lovers or the same person. They appear and disappear at the same time.

WHY?Outreach) It's too early to draw conclusions, but something is suspicious there.

Atheist) Haha, I can assure you we are not the same person haha. It's funny that because someone agrees with an atheist on this page you think they must be the same person :)

Atheist) But WHY?Outreach, if Pastor doesn't want to answer the question I asked will you? The question is, will you explain what Deuteronomy 22:28-29 really means? Since Pastor thinks I am misunderstanding it. Thanks.

Pastor) atheist, I never said you misunderstood it. This is just another case of your ignorance. You have no clue about anything. Your just plain stupid! I have tried to explain things to you over and over and over but it just won't sink in. Outreach, if you get sucked into this guys/girls vortex, you may never get out. Run while you can.

Atheist) Pastor, I said that the Bible says, if a man rapes a virgin who is not married, he has to pay the father and he must marry her and he cannot divorce her.

I said this because Deuteronomy 22:28-29 says, "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

Then you said, "I am a pastor. I am quite "familiar" with the Bible. I will even venture to guess that I understand it better than you. Not because I am a pastor, but because of the way you have used the scriptures and how you have MISUNDERSTOOD the entire concept of context."

So you understand it better than me but you won't tell me what the verse is really saying?

Pastor) And I won't atheist. I won't cast pearls before swine.

I felt the need to copy and post this discussion because I find it extremely interesting how someone who believes their religion to be true can continue to say someone is taking their scripture out of context, while at the same time refusing to put it into context so that is can be properly understood.

Of course, I believe the atheist was being perfectly rational quoting a Bible verse and thinking it means what is says. If it meant something else it would have said something else right? It is interesting that the only verses Christians say are taken out of context are the ones that appear immoral and all the others are allowed to be taken at face value.

I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this, so if you have a comment please leave one!